Estimated Reading Time 20 Minutes
Emily Romrell (00:00):
Hey you! Welcome back to The Vibrant Life Podcast. My name is Emily Romrell and we made it to 30 episodes. Can you believe it guys? I’m super excited about that. And this week is a special case because I usually do an interview every 10 episodes with someone that I think has a great perspective on a vibrant life. And you get to hear from me this week because I was fortunate to be asked to be on a different podcast called Finding Unity with Valerie Payne. And I really enjoyed my conversation with her about my experience with anxiety and depression. And, uh, so I thought I’d share that with you guys today. You should definitely check out Valerie’s podcast. It’s great and has a lot of different people on there and how we can all come together, um, and have unity in our world. So check that out and enjoy this interview that I did. And we’ll see you next week. Live The Vibrant Life.
Emily Romrell (01:13):
Hi, this is Valerie Payne and you’re listening to another episode of Finding Unity. And today I have Emily Romrell on. Now, Emily, do you want to say hi?
Emily Romrell (01:21):
Hey, how’s it going?
Emily Romrell (01:22):
Thank you so much for being on. Emily’s going to be talking to us about anxiety.
Emily Romrell (01:27):
Yeah, Yeah. Um, I’m not like an expert psychologist or anything, but I’ve dealt with anxiety for a long time, so I’m happy to share my thoughts.
Valerie Payne (01:34):
You’re an expert with your, with your story.
Emily Romrell (01:36):
Yeah, exactly.
Valerie Payne (01:38):
Um, so Emily, do you first just want to talk a little bit about yourself, where you’re from?
Emily Romrell (01:43):
Sure. Uh, I grew up in Utah in Orem, in Utah Valley. Uh, it’s a great place. People are really friendly. Um, I love the mountains. I love to go up and hike and be in nature. I’m the oldest of six kids. Um, friends. I have a really close family. I’m single 35 and I love podcasting. I love reading, writing music, anything creative. So, Yeah.
Valerie Payne (02:07):
That’s right. Emily has her own podcast as well. So we’re going to be talking a little bit about that as well as we talk today. First of all, just tell us a little bit about your podcast and what inspired that.
Emily Romrell (02:19):
So it’s called The Vibrant Life Podcast. Again, my name is Emily Romrell and I just really felt compelled to start a podcast. I am kind of an introvert. I wouldn’t say I’m shy. I’m really good at talking one-on-one with people, but I hate being the center of attention. So I was like, why do I want to start a podcast? But I do feel like I’ve learned a lot of life lessons just in my own experiences and I’ve always loved writing and I’ve always loved like writing kind of personal essays. So I just felt like really honestly, kind of like a push from my soul. Like you need to share your story and share these ideas with people. So, Yeah.
Valerie Payne (02:54):
How did you come up with the name and what would you say is the topic of The Vibrant Life?
Emily Romrell (02:59):
Um, well, like we’re going to talk about anxiety today. I’ve dealt with anxiety and depression since I was a teenager, like 13 or 14. Um, and I just know that life can seem really gray and kind of depressing if you let it, but you can choose to have a vibrant, happy life if you want to. And so I just wanted something that was like, yes, I want to live a vibrant, happy life, even if I’m dealing with hard things.
Valerie Payne (03:22):
So what are some of the topics you’ve talked about so far in your podcast?
Emily Romrell (03:26):
I, this very last one I released on a Friday was about Planting Seeds. So I talked about planting, all kinds of seeds, just ideas that are good, that you can open your heart to about changes that you want to bring into your life. Um, I am LDS. So a lot of the things I talk about on my podcast sometimes have LDS influences and are from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but it’s not just for people of our church it’s for everyone. And I have a lot of friends who are not members of the church or from other backgrounds that I think benefit from it also. So, yeah.
Valerie Payne (03:57):
That’s awesome. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your anxiety. How young were you when you realized it really started to impact your life? Sure. And when did it maybe become more intense and how have you managed?
Emily Romrell (04:09):
Um, it really started to affect me when I was in junior high. Um, I was like a Hermione from Harry Potter when I was in elementary school. I love learning, I love books. I thought I could conquer the world. I was fearless and I think I hit puberty and then just my world kind of flipped upside down. Um, and I think that probably happens honestly for a lot of people, but they don’t really talk about it, but, um, yeah, junior high, I just really started to feel anxious about like, where do I fit in the world? And I think that’s normal for every teenager, but then also I think I did really struggled with like clinical anxiety and depression and that has affected me for a long time.
Valerie Payne (04:47):
So, So you noticed it specifically during puberty where it really became, where it really started impacting you.
Emily Romrell (04:53):
Yeah, like around 12 or13. Yeah.
Valerie Payne (04:55):
Okay. And when did you get to the point where you started to get help?
Emily Romrell (04:59):
Oh,
Emily Romrell (05:01):
And what did that look like maybe for people who are listening, who have anxiety?
Emily Romrell (05:06):
I actually, I kind of, I feel like the world is better at accepting mental illness now than it was even like 10 years ago when I was a teenager. Um, I was mortified to say that I was dealing with depression. I just didn’t want anyone to know. And I was so insecure about it. And, um, I did try some medication, but I didn’t stick with it very often. So I have a really good support system. My parents are great. Um, I had the church leaders that were great, that supported me also, but, um, I don’t know, I kind of just struggled off and on. Um, and then I tried counseling a few different times, um, and then just kind of life, just, you know, Ups and downs. So, Yeah.
Valerie Payne (05:45):
So when you tried counseling for a little bit, did you feel like you didn’t jive with some of the therapists?
Emily Romrell (05:50):
Mmm-hmm
Valerie Payne (05:50):
Okay. And that’s common, yeah.
Emily Romrell (05:51):
That’s some of my biggest advice for people because I’m so pro counseling now. Um, but I just recently finished counseling a few months ago. Um, again for another try and I loved my counselor this last time. So I think you really have to be picky. Sometimes people think, oh, I tried counseling and it didn’t work, but there’s a lot of things that go into that. Right. You have to find someone that you connect with, which is super important, but also you have to be willing to do the work outside of counseling because counseling is there to kind of evaluate and say, here’s what we’re doing or give you ideas. But if you don’t do that internal work, then it’s kind of meaningless.
Valerie Payne (06:28):
That’s true. I often say a lot of therapy happens outside of the session. Yeah.
Emily Romrell (06:32):
So I mean, but it’s really valuable also to have a counselor that can challenge you, but also provide a safe place for you. Um, I think that’s kind of a hard combination to find sometimes because, um, you do need someone to kind of challenge your ideas and help you think about new things in different ways, but you also need to have someone that, uh, you feel safe with that you can tell you’re you can be vulnerable with and not be ashamed of that. So, yeah,
Valerie Payne (06:59):
I’m actually teaching a lesson, um, to our, to youth in my church tomorrow about anxiety and depression. I can’t remember the quote off the top of my head, but there’s one that specifically says, make sure you’re honest with your therapist and open about what’s happening. So yeah.
Emily Romrell (07:15):
I mean, people sometimes think, why would I want to talk to someone when I have friends or family? And I think talk to anyone who you can, if you need to talk to someone, but it’s nice to have someone who doesn’t have all the baggage, your other relationships have too, that you can just kind of start fresh with.
Valerie Payne (07:29):
Yeah. And has like a non-bias, you know, opinion and can really be real with you.
Emily Romrell (07:35):
Yeah. I’m totally pro counseling. I think if you find the right person, it’ll be really beneficial.
Valerie Payne (07:39):
So, So when did you, you said you recently finished it again. Um, when do you feel like you kind of became more on board with therapy and um, and when, like what caused you to be on board with it? If that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like what was helpful?
Emily Romrell (07:53):
So 2017 was a really rough year for me. Like, um, just, I was really overweight and, um, I was really, really depressed and this had had a really hard year, basically didn’t work for like a year. Um, and I was just kind of at my wits end. So I actually went and talked to my Bishop and it was just like, I don’t know what to do. And my Bishop at that time actually was also a psychologist. And he’s like, you need therapy, you need to go to counseling. And I was really resistant to it honestly, but I thought, okay. I mean, I, it’s kind of what you always hear people talking about hitting rock bottom and you know, I don’t feel like, I feel some people’s rock bottoms may be more extreme than mine, but, um, but I was really kind of like, I don’t know what else to do. So I found another counselor and, um, again, like the first counselor I tried after I talked to my Bishop actually didn’t work for me. And then I tried a second one and then the second one was the one that was the fit. So, um, but I decided like I’m going to do the work. Like I don’t care. I’m going to try to be vulnerable. I’m going to try to do what she tells me to do. And, um, I don’t know, just, just really try to work on myself. So, yeah. Yeah.
Emily Romrell (09:04):
So how have you found healing? Not just with therapy, but in general through the, through this experience of anxiety and depression?
Emily Romrell (09:14):
Uh, well, I think the biggest thing is self-love, I’ve been so critical of myself for years since I was a teenager. And I think society does not help in that area, but, um, and I’m still learning this. I’m not perfect at it by any means, but I think in my twenties, I was so worried about like, I need to have life figured out. I need to have a job. I need to have a relationship. I need to finish college or whatever. And like, if I looked at like all of the life checkboxes that people were checking off, then I was like such a loser in my mind. And, um, but as I’ve now, I’m 35 and I’ve kind of had a little bit more experience. I realize everyone has their own timeline and their own journey. And even though I might not have some of the checkboxes ticked off that I want, um, I have had a lot of experiences that have really, uh, educated me in a lot of different ways and, um, and have given me understanding in places that I didn’t realize. And so, uh, now I’m just like, no one has it figured out we’re all figuring it out together, which I like your podcast unity. And so, um, I’ve kind of come to terms with that more in the last few years, which has really helped.
Valerie Payne (10:30):
We all just fake it till we make it.
Emily Romrell (10:33):
It’s important.
Valerie Payne (10:35):
Um, yeah, no, I love that. And, and something I’d like to ask as well is, um, I guess first as you’ve experienced anxiety, depression, maybe, you know, been open with some people about your experience with anxiety and depression, what has been, maybe not helpful that people have shared or done have them, what has been helpful?
Emily Romrell (10:56):
Yeah, it’s kind of a fine line. Um, cause I do think people get really comfortable with anxiety and depression and they can just stay there and they just think, oh, I’m anxiety. I have anxiety or I’m depressed, so they don’t want to change. And then they get stuck in life, which I was there for a while. So, um, I think people who want to say, oh, just snap out of it, just come on. You, it’s not real. Or I think there is a lot of stigma still around mental illness. I think it’s getting better. But, um, when I was a teenager, I was mortified again, like to tell anyone that I had dealings, I was dealing with anxiety or depression, but, um, people would be like, oh, come on, you can do it. Or like, why are you just being lazy? I guess I would, I was, people would think I was lazy when I was just having all these mental issues.
Valerie Payne (11:47):
Right.
Emily Romrell (11:48):
And that’s not helpful. Um, but I do think it’s kind of, you do need pushes. You need pushes to see a counselor or to take medication or get walks outside or whatever, because if you let yourself sit in that dark place, you’re going to get, it’s a spiral. I always talk about on my podcast about a spiral upward or a spiral downward, I think we’re all spiraling one way or the other. Um, and so if you get into that dark place, it’s just a continual spiral downward, um, but if you even make baby steps a little bit at a time, you can reverse that and spiral back upward.
Valerie Payne (12:24):
Yeah. Getting a little spiritual. One of my favorite scriptures is Helaman 5:12 where it talks about, you know, uh, Christ being the rock. And then if you don’t focus on Christ, which I look at that as hope as well, right? Hope that you can overcome depression, hope you can overcome anxiety. So if you don’t focus on that, it says it’s, well, it basically says to focus on that so that, um, when the winds and the whirlwinds of the adversary come like you won’t be able to, and he won’t be able to drag you down to despair. So just that idea, what you were saying, spiraling reminded me of that scripture. Um, I wanted to ask you as well, we talked about anxiety and depression and I feel like we often talk about it very generally, but it looks different for everybody. So do you mind just talking a little bit about what that looks like for you? Yeah.
Emily Romrell (13:12):
Um, I have panic attacks, which really people, I guess there are different levels of panic attacks, but like full-blown panic attacks, you feel like you’re dying, you know? So I’d get like, you know, big, heavy chest, like hyperventilating, like just feeling like I’m going to die kind of a thing. Um, every once in a while. And I think I would work myself up because I’ve done a lot of thought work too. Like how you think in your mind was really helps, but, um,
Valerie Payne (13:39):
CBT, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. That’s awesome.
Emily Romrell (13:43):
Exactly. Um, but, and also just being lethargic, you know, and just fatigue and just not having a desire to do anything. It’s kind of like depression and anxiety are as kind of like bipolar, I feel like, even though I’m not bipolar, but, um, they go together because, uh, if you’re anxious, you’re all tense and you’re like antsy and you’re just like, I don’t know what to do. I feel like so trapped in kind of like, just really restless. Or on the other side of the spectrum, you’re just, um, just dead to the world. Like I don’t care. I’m a zombie just going through the motions. Uh, you know, just nothing really means anything. It can be, it can feel really hopeless. So, uh, my heart really goes out to anyone who struggles with that because I know it can be really hard.
Valerie Payne (14:30):
Yeah. So when you have a panic attack, what, what do you feel, um, are some things that can maybe onset those panic attacks? Do they come out of nowhere or,
Emily Romrell (14:41):
I mean, it can come out of nowhere, But mostly it’s I think thoughts, honestly, I think your thinking can really spiral you into an, a panic attack because what I’ve learned is anxiety is kind of the fear of the fear of the bad emotion. So what has really helped me is that it’s okay to feel bad emotions. Sometimes it’s okay to be uncomfortable sometimes, but if I’m like, oh, I’m going to be with a group of people and I might feel shy or uncomfortable, then I get afraid that I’m going to be shy or uncomfortable. And then that fear just spirals. And I’m just like, oh man, I don’t know what I’m going to do. And then what if this boy I like says hi to me? And then what if the food is weird? And I don’t like it, and then they’re going to be, you know, offended because I don’t want to eat the food or whatever, you know, it just stupid little things. Um, but, but then I start feeling that fear of the fear and then that just grows, you know, and that’s really causing for me, I think, causes panic attacks.
Valerie Payne (15:43):
And so you said you feel like you’ve accepted those emotions, which is great.
Emily Romrell (15:48):
I try, I try to,
Valerie Payne (15:49):
And I think that’s it. I mean, that’s a part of acceptance and mindfulness too, right. Is to accept it and, um, recognize like life. Isn’t always wonderful for everyone. You know, those Instagram pictures everyone’s posting. You have no idea what’s going on underneath. Right.
Emily Romrell (16:03):
True. It’s true.
Valerie Payne (16:04):
So when you’re experiencing, um, these panic attacks, what do you, do you allow, do you just accept, okay. I’m having a panic attack or do you do things to help yourself during the panic attack? What advice would you give, I guess, to people who also experienced panic attacks?
Emily Romrell (16:19):
Um, yeah, again, it goes to like the spiraling spiraling idea, but, um, I think breathing is really helpful. So, um, you know, it, doesn’t, there’s a lot of different breathing techniques that you can try. One idea is just, you breathe in deep, really big for like eight seconds and then hold it and then breathe out for four seconds and hold it, breathe in for four seconds and hold it. And just that slow breathing. It really kind of resets your body and really helps you to kind of calm down. I also do the ABCDE method, which I actually did a podcast on and I count it. I think it’s a really good grounding technique. So grounding is just kind of coming back. So when you’re having a panic attack, it’s really easy to just get into your head and they just think, oh my gosh, everything is going crazy and just feel all over the place. So if you can ground yourself, there’s a lot of different techniques for that too. But, um, I just use the ABCDE, which I’d actually tap it on my, my lap. And I just, so there’s five fingers. So A is you acknowledge what’s going on. B is, what is your belief about what’s going on? C, is to challenge that idea, um, D is to decide a new plan of action, and then E is to see the effects of your new thinking.
Valerie Payne (17:31):
That’s great. So that sounds like a really helpful tool to help, you know, ground yourself. Um, what ways do you, would you say, because the podcast is called finding unity and my mantra kind of is finding unity through healing, seeking, understanding, connection, and love.
Emily Romrell (17:47):
Yeah.
Valerie Payne (17:47):
Um, and so what ways do you feel like having anxiety has helped you to find unity?
Emily Romrell (17:53):
Honestly, I just think my own struggles have really given me compassion for other people. You know, the older I get and the more that I know people, there’s not a human on the planet that doesn’t deal with something hard.
Valerie Payne (18:03):
Yeah.
Emily Romrell (18:03):
I don’t care what your past is or what your story is. I mean, I’m a writer and I love stories and we all have our own stories and my thing is own your story. So like, if you can own your story and then you can have compassion in others for their stories that really brings unity, I think.
Valerie Payne (18:18):
Yeah. I think that’s so true. And I feel like, I bet with your experience with anxiety, you’re more apt to seek understanding for people when maybe, you don’t understand.
Emily Romrell (18:30):
I try really hard not to judge, which, you know, I’m human, I make mistakes, but I honestly it’s. I always even like in my Planting Seeds podcast, I just did. You know, first impressions are always bogus. Even if you have a good first impression of someone, we all are so complicated and we all have so many layers to us that if someone gives you a bad impression, it’s so easy to judge or it’s so easy to look at someone on the outside and see, oh, they’re such an arrogant person. Or like, they’re, they’re not living up to what they could do, but honestly, I believe we’re all doing our best with what we know how to do. And if you, if we knew how to do better, we might be able to be better. That’s a, that’s a Maya Angelo quote, I think. But, um, but yeah, I just try, I try really hard to try to see past the first impression on people.
Valerie Payne (19:20):
Yeah. I love that. I think that’s great advice. Do you have any other advice for people who may be experiencing depression or anxiety? Um, yeah. Just any advice you’d want to give them or whether that’s tools or just…
Emily Romrell (19:33):
You know, it kind of looks different for everyone, like you said, but, um, I would encourage you to see a doctor if you feel like that’s necessary. If it’s something that’s making you not able to live your life, then you need to find help, whatever that looks like for you. So, um, like if you can’t be a productive human being, and if you’re just stuck in bed all day, then you need to make a change. Like what we talked about, you need to be, get a push, even though it is really hard. So see a counselor talk to your regular medical doctor. I mean, I take medication also for anxiety that helps me. And I was, and I tried probably five or six different medicines before I found the right one. So again,
Valerie Payne (20:11):
It’s like therapy, you have to find what works for you.
Emily Romrell (20:12):
And so That can be a challenge. And so don’t give up, I guess my advice is don’t give up, like there is hope, but sometimes it takes a while. It takes a process of trying things and experimenting.
Valerie Payne (20:22):
Yeah. I love that. And I think, yeah, I think it’s really important. Like you said, there’s a stigma about therapy and with mental health, I also think there’s a stigma with, um, taking medication. And I think that people have to do what’s right for them. And for some people that means taking medication for some people that means not taking medication. Some people it can increase the anxiety and depression and make it worse, you know? And so you have to do what’s best for you. What’s best for your body. Um, David Burns who wrote Feeling Good, which is a big book on cognitive behavioral therapy. He talks about the importance of doing medicine and therapy together and how that’s the most effective and how you just mentioned as well that you just went back to therapy again. I think that’s something else to remember is just because we’ve had therapy once doesn’t mean we’re like cured forever. Right? We all need check-ups and check-ins,
Emily Romrell (21:11):
I actually had a Bishop when I was a teenager who was like, well, you might just deal with this your whole life. And I got so depressed from that because it’s true. Like I’ve been dealing with it my whole life basically, but, um, I’ve come to understand that that’s okay. Um, and sometimes I think people think, oh, I have to beat this. I have to conquer it. And sometimes you can and if you can, that’s amazing. But sometimes it’s just a trial that you just have to kind of learn how to manage. And I think even if you don’t struggle with anxiety, depression, but learning some thought work, I wish they would teach that more in schools, honestly, because even if you don’t have this specific challenge with anxiety or depression, um, learning how to manage your thoughts and how to deal with hard things is so helpful.
Valerie Payne (21:53):
Yeah, I completely agree. I think that there’s so many, all of us have thinking errors. All of us, everybody has thinking errors. And for me, um, I guess like as a therapist, I love teaching them because then it helps me correct my own thinking errors. I’m like, oh, I did that today. Okay.
Emily Romrell (22:10):
Yeah. And I think, you know, we’re all learning and we’re all we all have. We have like the change cycle, which is another thing that I learned in therapy, which is we have relapses, you know? And so like, you’ll make a change. You’ll do really good for a while and then you’ll relapse. But hopefully, it’s, again, the upward spiral, like the relapse will be less and less each time. And then you become, then you conquer whatever that is. So, yeah,
Valerie Payne (22:32):
I love that. And I think that’s a benefit also to going to therapy is learning those tools. But also it’s easy to it’s sometimes it’s hard to recognize your own thinking errors. And so having someone to bounce that off, I think is helpful, but I love so much of what you’ve shared today and just also your encouragement and your hope and your podcast, The Vibrant Life.
Emily Romrell (22:52):
The Vibrant Life. Yeah.
Valerie Payne (22:54):
I mean, I love that it’s so positive and I think it’s really will be helpful to other people. So I love that you’re doing that. And it sounds like you’ve had a lot of episodes specifically with tools. Um,
Emily Romrell (23:04):
I’ve had a couple with tools. Um, I actually did like a bonus episode with tools cause I was talking to a friend and she’s like, Hey, do you have a way for me to like manage my anxiety? And I was like, well, this is what I do. So then I did a podcast about it, but it’s not only about that. It’s just about life lessons that I’m learning. Yeah.
Valerie Payne (23:21):
Yeah. I love that. Um, well thank you so much for being on and chatting with me. I like to ask everybody on my podcast, one final question and that is what does unity mean to you?
Emily Romrell (23:31):
Oh, I love it. Um, I think unity is learning how to love others, even if they’re different. Right. Which I love you have people from all kinds of perspectives on this podcast, which I think is great. Um, I think the world is so polarized right now and there’s a big lie out there that is, if you don’t agree with someone, then you’re against them. That’s such a lie and people can have different perspectives and still be amazing friends. And if people would just learn that and learn how to be kind, I think the world would be better.
Valerie Payne (24:01):
I love that. We should all be kind. Ellen DeGeneres says that.
Emily Romrell (24:06):
Kindness would make the world better, yep.
Valerie Payne (24:07):
I Love that. And also what you were saying about, um, giving people the benefit of a doubt. I think Brené Brown, I think talks about that one of her books. I can’t remember which one, but, um, yes. I love that. All those thoughts.Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being on a really appreciate you.
Emily Romrell (24:23):
Thanks for having me.
