Estimated Reading Time 24 Minutes
Hey you! I’m Emily Romrell, this is The Vibrant Life Podcast, and let me tell your peeps, you’re in for a great listen today. I recently interviewed my friend Ryan Harrell about his extremely challenging experiences with depression and anxiety. I admire Ryan a lot because he’s open about how he deals with some very tough things. It was really great because when he learned about the podcast Ryan almost immediately expressed a desire to be on the show and share his insights, and that’s not something I always get. It was really fun.
You know a lot of people find being so vulnerable frightening or at least very intimidating. It takes guts to open up and share your story and it means a lot and so I know as you listen to the interview you’re going to be inspired.
Just a quick note, there is some discussion about some suicidal thoughts and dark thoughts and mental health struggles, so just be aware of that. I do want to mention that we have some really great resources now that we didn’t always have in the past. If you or someone that you know is struggling with suicidal feelings, maybe the best resource is the 988 suicide in crisis Lifeline. It’s kind of like 911 for mental health.
The lifeline provides 24/7 free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States. You can contact them in English or Spanish and all you have to do is dial 988. So please don’t hesitate to reach out if you need help. Honestly guys, we need your light and what you bring to the world.
Alrighty, thanks again for spending some time with me and with Ryan today let’s just jump right into our conversation:
Emily: Okay Ryan, I’m so glad, remind me is it Harrell? How do you pronounce your last name?
Ryan: Harrell, H A RR E LL.
Emily: Okay perfect. Because it’s kind of funny. We got introduced by a mutal friend, Ryan.
Ryan: That’s correct.
Emily: And I think Emilys kind of have the same problem where there’s a bunch of Emilys or a bunch of Ryans, it’s kind of funny. But it was really fun to meet you and we were at a social thing together, and I think it’s been like a year and a half maybe? Ryan: Yeah, it was a Come Follow Me group.
Emily: yeah
Ryan: I was just coming back into the church, being fellowshipped back, and ran into you and Ryan so…
Emily: Yeah.
Ryan: We got into an interesting conversationabout depression which we might get into later but yeah.
Emily: Yeah. So I mean, one thing I like about that is just the importance of friendships in your life, you know, no matter where you are, and just, how they can help you come back to church, or even if you’re not like necessarily religious, but help you come back to you like a more positive side of life, with personal development, just by their example and kind of fellowshipping you…
Ryan: Yeah, it’s hard to find good friends that want the best for you.
Emily: Yeah.
Ryan: Because I was anti religion. I was not, going to church and I wouldn’t be caught dead in the church, but Ryan actually introduced me to the Come Follow Me group that met outside the church. So that was kind of a safe way for me to explore coming back into the church. And so I thought okay, I can go here and wear normal clothes and not feel judged. You’ll just want to like have a good discussion about the Gospel of Jesus basically.
Emily: Yeah.
Ryan: Which I’m not against, I’m just kind of against religion or I was at least at the time. So it was kind of a safe way for me not to feel judged, kind of like okay I can explore this avenue safely and feel like I’m just kind of like everybody else.
Where church, I felt like this huge like pressure, like I walked through the doors and you’d have to dress in a certain way. It’s been 20 years and I feel this huge judgment of like guilt and shame of like my past. Because, I knew, I knew the code. What do you call that? I knew the way, because, Mormonism. I knew the standards they had.
Emily: Right.
Ryan: I knew I wasn’t living up to them and well I can’t go back if I’m not living up to those standards because it’s like I don’t feel comfortable with that.
Emily: Sure.
Ryan: Because in my mind, in my integrity, I feel like a hypocrite. And so it kind of gave me a safe way to come back to church. And as you know it took me I can hear the courage to finally come to those doors I’m so proud of you.
I got I got my white shirt had to go buy that stuff again
but it’s nice of uniform cuz any fit right in with the outfits they wear on your I would rather put like beef blend in and not stand out because I knew feel like you’re part of the group and you’re there for a group of the group experience I have an individual experiences at home like everyone and meditate I read the scriptures every day now and something I’d mentioned earlier to you before you talk about this was gaining spiritual power do is jump right into it or
a little bit of a background so I know that you said
depression and anxiety most of your life
you know when that first kind of got on that for you. This is this darkness is fresh pasta monk in that dream collapsed his depression can stink bugs be down in a survival I could go to church cuz it was so bad that I wasn’t following this path that I found me follow it on my friends and neighbors are falling
Linda R cell survive I’d like not go until the same list for a few years and then found other spiritual Avenue is another whatever is kind of drifting through last 20 years of my life finding whatever I could knowing something was wrong thing trying to leave you the guilt and the shame whatever and basically experiencing life to the fullest of all I like studying all the religions of the world and I think that’s the truth one of the court rules of them I found was if you want to become spiritual Unity faith in the Lord which every Lord of religion you’re setting like in the Indian it’s like Lord Krishna eat whatever Lord it is Norfolk Christian is with Jesus as Lord Jesus
and the grace of God which I experienced the grace of God was undeserved like I didn’t earn it so one thing is like faith in something is where you earn something so you put your faith and trust in something doesn’t mean it will pan out but it’s like you only caught like a psycho
in psychological terms have a degree in Psychology you called magical thinking but the placebo effect doesn’t work unless you believe it right so ironically if you don’t believe in the have faith in a higher power it won’t work for you whether it’s real or not it’s like to me it’s like you can’t sell people in the truth cuz it is what it is but they don’t believe it it won’t work for them in their lives which is which is really ironic because you think that if it’s true it’s true you would have to believe it but if this power Works through belief that the Holy Ghost the spirit really testifies of Truth to you in different situations but yeah but I also think that you’re right you have to move forward with
yes which is which is challenging when you look for surgery to take action to the place where you’re going to get the best outcome but sometimes we don’t know you know girls like all the things they sell you on the truth of the church the doctrine of those things when really you don’t know what happens when you die
yeah I mean
I mean I guess
I don’t know I guess the word spell U is interesting to think about cuz I think he can’t have a testimony in it and everything but you yourself are have that Veil over you and you don’t know Diamond freaks me out to be honest I’m not going to lie but I do have a people that I love that have passed that I felt their presence after the fact that they’ve been dead and so to me I have that feeling that I felt their presence before and so I just know there’s life after death I don’t really know everything forever is really big but I know how my father loves me and I know like the basic gospel planned and if I can just stick to those things then I feel like
the rest can work itself out to know if you didn’t know those things though is that everyone has their challenges and I haven’t known those things I’ve got a different path of what we talked about the depression car registered accepted the darkness and learn to survive
it’s it’s the gifts of the darkness I don’t want to get into this counterintuitive it’s like I wouldn’t be alive today or I would have killed myself a long time ago have been for Pride the church has practice in a Mike Tyson when he kept me alive it’s different in the darkness cuz it’s like it’s a converted second office it’s cuz it’s almost like the light comprehend is not the darkness and the Darkness copperheads mouth Delight it’s just what you choose to walk in and I realize that your twenties are walking in darkness like it’s not worth it it’s not worth living is not worth all those things and finally finding some light to attach to what you do last few months ago I was telling you I’m I Suicidal Thoughts actually dissipated yeah I think I mean there’s been so much science about that even in just the last year or two like
I don’t know I don’t know all the math and everything but quantum physics like what you focus on changes what you are looking at and all it’s just so crazy and I feel like if you focus on the good things in the focus on the light that’s what’s going to grow in your life you know goes back to like that
like that story is like a faith is like a Little Caesars you know if you plant it will grow and focus on that whatever so you struggle with depression and anxiety for a long time straight out of such a bizarre concept has observed something changes it and also the experience of it
so it’s almost like I’ll have spiritual experiences and not know where it came from and its it retroactively athletic grow into it so it’s like what’s an example
when I just shared with some I know is that when I came in to attack she had a vision of the tree of life but to me it’s like I know I’m not worthy of that but sounds like it sounds like I have this experience of like here on the right path but now you need to grow into that cuz I think it will fall into this trap of spiritual experiences we just chased these high because I’ve chased every spiritual high as you can think of and all things like what’s the growth that matters cuz that that’s what actually makes you build your character so that you think that’s just the path is growth in the dark after all said and done like I told them what would help him survive depression as long as you’re learning you’re not learning and growing like that’s destiny
they could be anything I was saying for me not because I generally don’t feel like my my Baseline is not feeling good so to feel good exercise because death that movement Jerry’s positive emotion it so now I have to make sure it’s okay feel good about myself I feel good in my body and now it from this day I feel like now I can kind of move into North and add more things to my life and have a positive and inexperience 7 – 1 it’s almost like take care of yourself first service before self to self okay so if you don’t if you don’t serve yourself first then your cups not phone if you don’t give him a couple it’s full
you’re going to talk like that cuz no one’s got a fool but I think that’s that’s the golden years or do you said my joy is full
I think that’s one of things I don’t hear much of the Mormon Church by the fuel my me going off on a tangent there
so what’s the plan of happiness I think is a misnomer is is the wrong way to go about it because happiness to me people chase happiness and people chase the highs they take drugs that do Under the can be happy if you just be Darkness will come to go pick up your pass whatever extreme negative emotional, and it’s scary and understand that but they don’t teach you how to suffer no teach you how to go to these negative emotions what you person from your body you can actually present to the satellite I think but where was I going with that that’s what it is that the fullness of the Gospel think is joy and the graduation at the others but I think that that happiness me I think
hurt people I cop a feel of ignorance because it makes you ignorant to the suffering of others who went through your suffering and you caught the other side that you let the joy you experience with Jesus as my backup was full when you taste that experience that Joy anything that happened in your past life experiences did Mater Mater what all this drama and negative experiences of some I tasted of This Joy like that’s all it is I could get with it overcame that immediately I like that’s exactly the promise they teach you in the Book of Mormon compared to fruit
because you’ve had that Darkness on you’ve had those experiences so you can compare you know you can compare that the joy at the end and I don’t know if you need to experience the dark side, but I never saw the like unless I was in darkness I got some cash now. I got to fill out darkness before darkness and what time I’ve ever perceived light is when I was in darkness ironically now that I’m kind of walking and I’m kind of going back to church and I’m in more when we’re walking in the light I don’t receive as much
and the hole metaphor like if you’re listening this is a lot of LPS terminology but they’re in our scriptures in the Book of Mormon there’s a story about that real life where people are holding onto a rod of iron and some hold on a long time and some don’t and some go on to miss the darkness and come back at the end is this tree of life with the fruit with the dishes put away in the Light of Christ so I would recommend if you have not been familiar with that store you can check it out in the Book of Mormon but I think that
you’re right in saying that I think everyone suffers in their own way depending on whatever whatever you’re going through some people have cancer so people have really big struggles with mental things some people have Financial stress marital stress whatever but we all have our struggles in our challenges that are really hard and I think that when we turn to
the Saviour and the light of the Gospel that’s when we realized what true boy and true happiness is is allowing that be
to work at us in our lives what are you saying that because when you go through the suffering to be the only way to suffers let go hope to let go of the truth and you can just go through the suffering any weird way it’s like you reconnect back to Christ in a different way it’s almost like your attachment to Christ Our attachment to the truth has to light is not healthy and the suffering purges you of this unhealthy attachment which is weird because I don’t like saying that cuz it’s that mean you have cancer you’re dying like
Flotsam and Jetsam when I get to give up hope cuz hope can be toxic to the soul until you let go of everything then you want to reattach A New Hope New Hope it’s something that is something I think I don’t know why aren’t buying but I’m not going to go out for myself I don’t really know what to say to other people and then I had to let go up with a certain point my life who is toxic to me and regaining A New Hope and tries like that just the name Jesus Christ actually help me like stand on something true and whether or not like in the final analysis if it is true or not I’m just holding on to This Land of Hope now and it’s changed my life and it’s like we didn’t work like 20 years I guess I’m kind of better myself because it didn’t work for me for 20 is my life it didn’t stop me by depression I’ve taken all the medication I’ve done all these things that part like
turn all these routes and also I had to be my natural self cuz I can’t find them I’ll just be miserable and accept it in the misery can I dislike overtime and his account goes like I feel through it I guess I’d say I purchased through it in the brain their owners a lot of stuff with modern Step Up trauma and PTSD in the brain and how much we can actually tolerate and how we were many of the past because you have resolved the past that’s kind where I’m at now to take the founders all my past I’ll be like it’ll come back with a vengeance kind of like
I mean just trying to reiterate what I’m kind of hearing from you is that
we have our our hopes and our expectations may be of what we want life to be and so we have our ideas and I’m buying them in our hopes and expectations of like this is how things should go and when life doesn’t turn out that way you know I mean I’m single I’m 27 I always wanted a family and kids so far that hasn’t happened you know but that doesn’t mean I have a bad light has a delightful life but it’s just you know. Hope for me hasn’t happened yet I saw the hope maybe in the future who knows what life’s going to come around the corner but
but then you can have those expectations might not always be met but when you have hope in Christ or in the gospel you know there’s a bigger hope that
everything will work out in the end because now that I’m going to church and doing these things I’m experiencing it like if I was analyzing myself in the outside I would call myself delusional to experience these things like it actually changes my life and it’s like until you experience that you can talk about all day long because I’ve experienced so many different things my life like
not worth going into all of them obviously but that the irony is that the thing of worked was the simple gospel Jesus which was so basic and simple no bake them to repentance right immerse yourself in this gospel and you’ll have a remission of your sins. The court thing is like I felt guilt deep down the truth I couldn’t hide but I knew I was a sinner and I knew I felt this guilt for the sins I like I don’t know how to delete myself in this Guild and touch her going back to church and like being faithful are having remission of my sins and it’s like it took us Forty Fort now then I guess that’s kind of my resentment towards why did it work for me back buddy else that was a fully faithful member of this church at 18 you all throughout my whole life I was faithful read the scripture I booked my always things prepare myself for a mission and it didn’t have her missionary somehow I still sent her I didn’t know they were going to mention so now it finally works for me so I’m like God’s timing I guess
everyone has their own timing just which is stupid cuz it doesn’t really help people when they’re when they’re suffering get seen of that have I have troubles and wrestle with different things about the church and
you know I think it’s okay I think it’s okay to have questions or struggles or challenges and maybe you had that time where you had to go away from the church kind of learned some different lessons and then now that you’re coming back you realizing more you know new lessons in new ways to help you live your life in a better way so I’m wondering what your audiences like I’m speaking to an audience that I assume is an LDS I’ll be like I don’t know your audience in your pocket but it’s not necessarily geared towards a couple things in there about the Book of Mormon or whatever I mean I’m happy to talk about the gospel in the big part of my life but what I really want to talk to you about is if that’s what you want to talk about cuz I think that religion and spirituality really does help you with vibrant life overcoming your
your depression and anxiety which is a part of that is coming back to church or like how have you or what does a vibrant life means you have the spiritual experience that I know they’re out there I’m not faking it it’s because I had instead of going up to the light I was went down to the darkness and I felt through this depression and yes it took a lot of years yes it took off like medicine studying as you can fall into despair you can fall into resentment there’s there’s so many things as you can fall into an iPhone and every single hole eventually pass like eventually like you don’t mean cuz they get so bad you weren’t yourself is what app they get to a point where is it wise that your life is not worth living and be better if you were if you were here
so it’s like now my life so bad and things are so like Bleak for me would be better if I just wasn’t here because then be actually I’m a burden on everybody and myself in your feelings and I felt through these feeling like II
Fortune as a coward I couldn’t act on I mean I don’t want to get into suicide unless you want to
I guess I think the thoughts and because the pain is the example I use a psychologist call Young At This example where you have to get a pistol in his weapons because I know he’s of access would be too great for me but suffering gets so bad you need psychological release valve. Imagine myself killing myself just because I just like to know that I had a way out okay I have a way out of this life and it kind of gave me a psychological release and then at 3 at 39 ever acted on it though so it’s kind of like experimentation with myself my depression so I just go through this Darkness it’s like there’s no overtakes you and overtime it dissipates and when it’s gone you’re like the sister leave they never want to think about it talk about it again
Play Big dark feelings I think
you know it’s it’s okay cuz I think a lot of people can relate to that and it kind of like this too shall pass if you were talking a little bit before like just kind of wait it out is brutal but you know the night to be really dark and long but then again this time will come again in the morning and good hope to give me what I had to Anchor myself to we see the Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow the hope that the sun hoping the promise of a better tomorrow and it doesn’t come right away especially can you live up north in the winter and I had to Anchor myself to the seasons was kind of timing so it’s like nature always wins it’s like Nature has its time and season if I go through depression so my last all winter but spring will come and that kind of gives you hope. Okay I’m going to come during the Spain how long is a last look at the cycles of Nature and time yourself and nature like everyday the sun comes up but if you’re the winters like spring will come
there is a brighter and better future and better tomorrow that gives you the energy till I get to positive force that gives you out of your bed cuz sometimes depression comes you can’t get out of bed and that helps you like okay well something’s come up there Summers around the car somewhere around the corner I guess it’s months away but it’s coming and you can prepare for it. You know spring swallows
also that makes me think of a quote which is like when you feel like you’ve been buried sometimes you’ve been planted or however that I can’t remember that quote goes but sometimes life can get very heavy and you might feel like dark and buried or whatever but maybe that’s just the pressure that you need to get your personal seed to try to come out of it’s shell petrol you know so
exercise you were talking about is really helpful for you for depression I know you said you were working out right before you came over here today people have different
ways they go back working on exercising to me it’s always been an internal thing cuz I know if I do I’ll feel better about myself that’s my motivation fit to find it yet I think
in a sick way to fight motivate you and when you’re in these places don’t judge yourself in a lot of that comes from
motivations are I’m not going to get into that but it could be dark things doesn’t matter gets you out the door to get you moving once you start moving it there is a positive motion my head are heavy and depressed but alligator sizes and move my body just get breathing and feel like I can’t breathe through this reach you this I get down when I get home and also like I feel lighter like that darkness is past I love that would just be kind to yourself and gentle with yourself that’s really important things just exercising couple different things like moving and getting the energy out about that same but also taking action which we also talked a little bit about before the start of this podcast which is like even if you take a very small action even if it’s just like getting out of bed or getting dressed or going to the gym or like you told me you just do one machine
two earlier before we started the podcast and that really helps you kind of move through either things do you know but those are taking action and so you don’t have to worry about
you know what you think you should do or whatever he likes just taking those small little actions that add up and really help you look like if I just breathe Judy wants that we want the next thing is just dinner it’s at positive motion for me
you let people put people singing in the more you and your Zone because field Mission do their thing and then people stop judging each other pretty nice
I’m in the world can be really judgy and then there’s our also
people that are just
I think very compassionate and tolerant you just got to find the right people and for good reason we need we need to know when things are getting bad yeah I’m like what’s okay what’s not okay people like behaviors and okay and so we need that’s why I think we have judgment like that compares with Pierce is like some things are not okay I guess summer starts going yelling at somebody like hey that’s Renee’s judgement here and say that that’s not okay for you to do me like that you know it’s good I think it’s good to have those boundaries into like be a member of society and like protect the space like maybe at the gym I protect the city I say space in January or maybe a little bit more open-minded people who have challenges our struggles to different than you because the pain is so unbearable that for me I could never see anyone else I was just like stuck in my own head down to try to Bear The Strain get through this but I could see other people
I feel you can’t see others cuz they’re just stuck in their own pain and you have no idea how do you say
but I do know that for me helping others lightens my load you know I really believe in service I think that
even if it’s just talking to someone or like sometimes I bake so sometimes I’ll take cookies to people or whatever you know it’s something silly but
trying if I’m having a bad day and I’m like this is a really hard day and I make cookies for someone and take it then that takes my mind off me and puts it on someone else you know I’m so I think service can be a way to lift yourself up as you’re trying to have some of these problems in level to mine. I called you I try to cycle cycle analyze myself I think myself apart psychology psychologically
eventos me like the mind can’t figure it out if you had like just be outside shall be a service like go to the gym and breathe
I’m outside of your head because when you get into your own sometimes and I just think that trying to get out of your head whether that’s movement through your body and going to the gym where it’s hurting someone else whether it’s you know
cleaning your house but just put the dishes in the dishwasher or whatever you know if you had like a specific thing that you wanted to talk about other than just kind of your
the lie that there’s light in Antonio’s Ally and that the truth isn’t this up this will pass that nothing lasts forever that the darkness eventually dissipates and that to embrace it and to feel through it is the path I took I’d recommend it for everybody because it’s dangerous because the thoughts can get really bad and dark and heavy so teach their own how are you how are you get through the darkness just know that when you experience the light and whatever the other side like me freaks life it’s just I don’t know it just reaffirms your existence much like a Buddhist idea which is if you don’t necessarily care as much in the church or in like Western Traditions but I think that there’s a lot of truth that you can find that
was it not necessary I mean who doesn’t obviously is religion but there’s like just the idea of being present in this moment and like letting this moment pass and having
never realizing that this too shall pass and then again the sun will come out again and you can you can find a purpose As you move through it like Christ or something that you have experience but the hope of like what there’s The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow that’s a very real hope you look up grass when they’re in the dark I mean I really appreciate you being so open and like sharing your feelings and
if you had one like if there is a billboard on your driving down the road and you saw the billboard on the road and it was your message to the world what would it say
you going to ask me like what your thought that I guess my thought of the day I was just don’t think just be a lot of keys that we talked about like just being present just trying to realize that it’s okay if you have some dark emotions are dark feelings but just to be careful about how to drive to take action on those and also realize that you can find help in a lot of different ways so we’ve talked about exercise we’ve talked about good friends that can be an example to you to help you lift you we’ve talked a lot about religion which I think
you know spirituality can mean different things to different people but if you’re interested in the church rectory for a Jew to go to Church of Jesus Christ I think. Or I’ll just leave is Christ of Latter Day Saints if you want to learn about this but even if it’s a different religion focusing on being your best self and personal development can be very helpful so it isn’t myths and gods and get whatever goddesses and legends of whatever it is just so ironic that Jesus somehow worked for me now for me to connect you now so I love that and cool thank you
again I just want to have a big thank you go out for me to Ryan thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings it really does take a lot of courage to do that and I appreciate you and your story and thanks to all my listeners I really appreciate your support again if you do feel the need to get some help please dial 9884 lasuen side Prevention Hotline and then I just hope we can all just learn from each other stories and grow and have compassion and and live by Brantley together so live the vibrant life people I love you
